The Truth About Ballet Bodies with ABTs Skylar Brandt

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Skylar Brandt: [00:00:00] I said to my partner, I said, you know, do you wanna take a quick picture just to obviously remember the performance? We took two pictures. He left the dressing room, and I cried for like 30 minutes Right after the cur. I, I literally, the whole experience just was like shot.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Welcome back. Every bendy body to the Bendy Bodies podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Linda Bluestein, the Hypermobility md, a Mayo Clinic trained physician here to help you understand connective tissue disorders and live your best bendy life. I'm thrilled to be joined today by my friend and bendy body's og co-host, Jennifer Milner, former professional ballet dancer and expert in training Hypermobile Movers.

If you haven't yet, be sure to check out our recent conversation. Dancing Stronger Smarter Training for Bendy Bodies with Jennifer Milner, episode 1 [00:01:00] 65. It's packed with practical Dancer tested wisdom. Today we have a truly special guest, Skyler brand principal dancer with American Ballet Theater. She began ballet at age six at Scarsdale Ballet School and later trained at the Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis School of American Ballet Theater, A two time silver medalist at YAGP.

She joined a BT two in 2009, became an apprentice in 2010, entered the court of ballet in 2011, roast a soloist in 2015, and then was promoted to principal in 2020. Her accolades include a 2013 Princess Grace Foundation, USA Dance Fellowship, a feature in Ballet's Greatest hits, a special jury award on Russia's big ballet and recognition on the Forbes 30 under 30 list in 2022.

We are excited about this conversation because on bendy bodies, we love talking with dancers. They embody the relationship between movement, resilience, and body awareness that so many people with connective tissue disorders can relate to. Dancers live in bodies that [00:02:00] push the limits of human movement, bending, stretching, and sustaining extraordinary precision under pressure.

Research shows that up to 90% of professional dancers meet criteria for generalized joint hypermobility compared to about 20% of the general population. But not every dancer is hypermobile, and even those who aren't face the constant task of mastering control, alignment, and recovery in an art form that demands perfection from head to toe.

Today's guest, Skyler Brand exemplifies that balance, combining discipline, artistry, and intelligent training to sustain a long, healthy career. We'll explore her work ethic, recovery mindset, and what the dance world can teach all of us, hypermobile or not, about strength, adaptability, and longevity. As always, this information is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for personalized medical advice.

Stick around until the very end, so don't miss any of our special hypermobility hacks. Here we go.

Okay, we are here with Skyler Brandt, and I can't tell you Skyler how [00:03:00] excited I am to chat with you. 

Skylar Brandt: Thank you. Likewise. I'm so happy that you're having me on. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Oh, wonderful. And I'm so happy that Jen Milner is here, OG co-host for Bendy Bodies. And I think Jen, you're gonna start with the 

Jennifer Milner: questions, right? I am.

We have a lot we wanna ask you about today. So let's just go ahead and dig in. So you are part of the first generation of ballet stars to grow up with the international Youth competitions and the sort of ever present, um, social media. So we would love to hear how this has sort of shaped you as a young dancer and how you use it now to both mentor the next generation and also to inform your own career.

Skylar Brandt: Hmm. I feel like, you know, social media is such a tricky thing because we can use it as a great tool from which to learn. Um, you know, back when YouTube was the thing, I was constantly watching videos of Adeline Pastore and, [00:04:00] um, various stars that I wouldn't have otherwise had the opportunity to see if it were not for the internet.

Danielle Simpkin got his start on the internet. Um, it, it really opened my whole world to the possibilities of, uh, what you could do in classical ballet. And so I was really grateful for that. Um, but I think that, you know, social media has that tendency to shift to, uh, the less than ideal side, which could include people kind of, um, portraying parts of their lives that are not totally truthful or, um.

It's like the internet is kind of like the wild west. Um, you can find all kinds of things, uh, whether you're looking for them or not. You know, a everything's driven by an algorithm. Um, but I think, you know, it's been, it's like I can see how social media is so necessary to have, um, especially as an artist to performer.

[00:05:00] It's like the, one of the only ways that I can communicate to, um, people when I'm gonna be on stage. Um, also it's, it's a way that I can kind of share with the world my own process, which I think can be really helpful, especially for young people. Um, but, you know, then it's also really easy to see those dancers online who might film something over and over and over again just to get the perfect shot of their 10 pirouettes or their perfect balance, or, which is awesome.

It's not like there's anything wrong with that. I mean, it's, it's probably kind of. Assumed that that's what's going on anyway. But I think it could put emphasis maybe sometimes on the wrong things, um, for young dancers. And it can help, it can start to take away from artistry and focus on technical capabilities.

And I think it's all important. It's just we need to be really mindful of what we're seeing and what we're watching. And so that's why personally I [00:06:00] like to share my process. And even though it's still curated, I'm not always, uh, I'm not necessarily posting my worst take. I'm also showing the, my journey through preparing a role, um, by showing several different takes over maybe the course of a couple months.

So that's kind of how I like to share on social media. 

Jennifer Milner: Well, and I think that you are very inspiring on social media. Um, I still remember, and I'm sure everybody remembers your, you know, sleeping beauty promenade. In 

Skylar Brandt: your attitude? Yes, that was, that I can say took me like three weeks to do. I was practicing that every day.

And also, we have to remember, it was the pandemic, so nothing else was going on. It was all I had to do in my day was learn how to promenade on point. So, you know, again, everything with a grain of salt, it's not like I'd ever wanna try to do that in an actual performance. I couldn't. But, but yes, I, I was working really [00:07:00] hard.

That was a lot of trial and error and a lot of different takes over and over again on, on the phones. Which you 

Jennifer Milner: were, which you were also very honest about. Right. You weren't like, oh, look what I just happened to do one day while I was warming up. Right. It was easy. Yeah, no, it was so easy. I didn't work on it at all.

Well, something else that you have been really honest about is sort of your, um, you said you consider yourself to have a lack of hypermobility, which, you know, we have seen, um. A growth of growth on, on social media, sort of encouraging hypermobility in those looks. So as a young and aspiring dancer, did you wish that you were more flexible?

And what was it like sort of growing up in this culture as someone who isn't as bendy? Have you, have you felt that pressure to push your body beyond what it, what's healthy for the sake of aesthetics? 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's funny 'cause I'll, sometimes I'll be having a conversation with someone who's not a dancer and, and I'll say, yeah, I'm actually not that flexible.

And they all laugh at me like, what are you great? Like, that's the most ridiculous thing I've [00:08:00] ever heard. And I'm like, no, no, I, I understand I'm flexible, but I'm not as flexible as many people are in the ballet world. I was like, for example, if someone's ear, like leg goes behind their ear, mine goes to, you know, my shoulder.

Like, that's, that's the difference that I'm talking about. I'm not, I, I have a lack of flexibility in many parts of my body. Like I. My legs don't go as high. Um, my feet are not as bendy. Um, just certain things structurally that I just don't have and maybe other people are blessed with. And as a kid it was so difficult to contend with it because you're looking around at your peers, at your classmates and you're like, oh my God, you know, I'm doing all this stuff at home.

I'm trying to stretch, but it's just, I just don't have that space. My, my hips just don't open up that way or what have you. My feet are just, the bones are the way that they are and, and no matter how much I am jamming [00:09:00] them under the piano or the couch, which also like, ow um, that, you know, can create a whole other slew of issues.

My feet are not necessarily gonna be as banana e as someone else's. So it was something that I think I was frustrated about because I knew I, there was a limitation as to how much I could change the way my body. The way I was born. But then as I got older, I actually realized that it, that my lack of hypermobility also protected my body in ways, like I was less prone to injuries.

Um, perhaps I could move faster than some people because I had, um, tighter muscles, uh, more like of that fast twitch reaction. Um, but I also could see that, you know, whether somebody's leg is here or here. Of course there's, there's a difference in the beauty and the aesthetic, but it's also, again, not what's most important.

And [00:10:00] so I think that falls into line with, again, the things we see on social media, which could be somebody doing 20 pirouettes, which is astounding, but maybe the next person is doing 25 pirouettes. And it's like, okay, what's the, it's the difference of five pirouettes. Same way. It might be a difference of five degrees in the height of the leg, but what's important?

Is what moves you emotionally, not necessarily that kind of technical stuff. So I feel like, um, I grew to appreciate my body and my body's limitations more when I got older and could see the benefits, uh, that it actually provided me later on. 

Jennifer Milner: I love that. And that you could see that hopefully at an earlier age too.

I think a lot of young dancers, um, struggle with that and struggle with what's the assumption. And, and in my work with pre-professional dancers, I always say, but that's not your job is to be the next Skyler brand. Your job is to be you and show the world what you have to offer. Um, speaking of that.

You've [00:11:00] been pretty honest about your feet and sort of the work that you've had to do with your feet, and you've talked about wearing FARs and all of that, saying your feet aren't quite as fancy. Um, so tell us a little bit more about your feet and ankles. And also, by the way, I, I love that you talk honestly about it and also that, um, you know, you chose to wear far FARs the fake arches rather than, you know, break your feet in half under the piano.

Skylar Brandt: Yes, absolutely. Um, well I appreciate that. I think, you know, I also, first of all, I feel open about talking about it because I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of the fact that my feet are not as arches the next person. I also, I'm like, I don't know how many times it's happened to you, but sometimes like I'll be at the beach and I'll see somebody with like.

Banana just the most gorgeous feet. And you're like, why were they never a dancer? So, right. It just goes to show that you can be born with feet like that, and it's not that people who are born with those feet don't also work hard at their feet and strengthening them. And obviously that [00:12:00] comes with its own set of issues.

Maybe the same way that I said, my limitation of my hope hypermobility actually helps me to have strength when I'm performing. Certain things like hops on point are quite easy for me because my feet are naturally a little bit more against than maybe the person who has uber flexible feet. And there's, um, less strength and the tendon easier for them to maybe roll their ankles, like it's a little more dangerous.

But they may not have had to do as much, they don't have to break their feet under the piano in order to accomplish a beautiful line. And so that's also, you know, there's nothing wrong with either thing, and I think that's why. I like to be open about it. Um, obviously ballet is an aesthetic art form, so if it's more pleasing to see a more arched foot at the end of a line, then why not put some padding on my feet just in the same way people put padding in other places of their bodies, you know, or, or wear Spanx to thin out their, [00:13:00] whatever the case might be.

It's like, it's an option, so why not? Um, it's not that I don't work hard, I just, I, I have a limitation as to how far my feet can go. And I did as a kid try to stretch my feet and it kind of definitely put stress on my achilles and on my ankles and made me feel jammed. And I was just like, oh, well, you know.

I think this is, I mean, this is the only way it was like killing me, that my feet weren't just not flexible. And then I'll never forget joining ABT two, um, the studio company now, and the first day on my, my first day of work at my new professional job in Abts Junior Company, the, uh, director came up to me and he said, have you ever tried arch enhancers?

And I was just like, okay, that's, that's your, that's your way to say, hey, go out and buy a pair of arch enhancers, right? Um, so I was like, okay, great. I'll go. And I got a bunch of different kinds and I tried them [00:14:00] and they helped and they also helped with my confidence because I was no longer stressing as hard.

Um, to be fair, I was only wearing the fake arches for performances. So in class and in rehearsal, I was still working on my feet, not just trying to find the quick fix. I was still trying to make my line as best. As I could, um, in those moments, but I was also then gave myself a little bit extra for the performances.

Um, what I will say an interesting new discovery is that I found that I was, my one foot is better than the other. My left foot is not as flexible and I also have more, um, of a hyperextended knee on my left leg. So it's interesting 'cause when I stretch my knee and I point my foot really hard, it's almost does this thing where it makes my foot look even more flexed.

So, and it puts a lot of like to point so hard against how [00:15:00] hard I'm stretching my knee was may caused me to have a buildup of fluid in my ankle on the outside of my ankle. And I was like, ow, this is really painful. And was something I just couldn't get to the bottom of. And it turned out it was an overuse kind of injury and.

I worked with, um, a teacher, actually, Isabelle Garan, who's Paris Opera trained, and she said to me, you know, don't stretch your knee that hard. Um, you, when you overstretch your knee, it almost looks, it, it gives your foot at the end of the line, um, a worse, a worse angle. She is like, stretch your knee or pull up your knee cap, but don't overstretch.

And it was amazing because after a little while of doing this, I was not only tensing, uh, no longer tensing my quads and like, uh, making my leg line rigid, but it was also allowing my foot to point [00:16:00] more easily without having to work against the strength of my calf being as, as most engaged as it was. So it not only made my line look better to slightly bend my knee, to me it feels like Ben.

It's not really, it doesn't look bent. It's just not overly stretched where it go. It's going in the opposite direction. And it also helped to alleviate pressure on my ankle and actually allow my foot to fold more over, uh, my Achilles as opposed to having this Achilles engage so much that my foot couldn't get past it.

Mm-hmm. So I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it was this great new discovery of, you know, going from being a perfect student, stretching my knees, pointing my feet as hard as I can to actually relaxing my body so that my bones could stack up, could line up in a slightly different way and look more beautiful and use less energy and tension.

Jennifer Milner: Well, and I think it's also an excellent example of, of realizing. You don't have to try to achieve a certain [00:17:00] look. What we're doing is the process, and if you are dancing correctly, then you have this great line and this great look, rather than what do I have to do to my body to get this look? That for you was artificial.

You don't have super hyperextended knees, so why should you be pushing into it and being able to relax into it? That's a, that's a great example. Thank you. I love 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: that. I don't know if you've, uh, heard of Bonnie Southgate Moore. Jennifer and I interviewed her for the podcast and she actually is doing like her PhD or Master's or something.

Literally in what you just said, the more you hyperextend your knee, the more you have to have ankle range of motion in order to get like over your point shoe and Yes. So exactly what you just said. So that's really fascinating. And, and you're right. There are actual medical conditions like Metatarsus Abductus, which we also talked about on this podcast with a podiatrist.

And I have a family member who has this and they have gorgeous arches. Gorgeous. Not a dancer, gorgeous arches, but it comes with all kinds of complications and all kinds of other [00:18:00] problems. So the ankle and the foot are, are of course, both related when it comes to being on point. And, you know, dancing with the body that you have is such a great message that you're, that you're giving us here.

I think that's so, so important for especially young dancers to hear, but working with the body that we have is important for everyone, whether they're a dancer or not. 

Skylar Brandt: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. Yeah. Let's shift gears a little bit and talk about injuries. Um, have you had to deal much with injuries? You've kind of mentioned that a little bit briefly earlier, but, um, how have you managed in that regard?

Skylar Brandt: Hmm. Yeah. So I love to tell this story 'cause I think it's important to hear, especially for dancers that love to persevere and are oh, so good at pushing through pain. And there we're so tough, we're so hardworking, you know, it's, it's hard to keep us out of the studios. Um, we wanna progress. We, we have this hunger for.

For, um, physical activity, but sometimes we need to listen to our bodies. And my [00:19:00] story is that, um, I remember after rehearsal, I felt like my back got sore, my lower back. So for like a couple weeks I was just stretching it. I was just constantly stretching it and it was like a dull ache that just wasn't going away no matter what I was doing.

And then one morning I woke up and I couldn't even lower my chin without feeling a zing from the base of my spine to the top of my head. So, and I'm a person who has not generally been injured in my whole time dancing from student to professional. Again, I think thanks to my slightly tighter body, everything is in good working order.

Um, but what did I, so now I am getting ready to go to work, like completely ignoring the fact that my body's like, Hey. You're in pain. Maybe you should stop, go. Maybe you should not go to work. And even just putting on my socks and shoes like to bend down. I, I was, [00:20:00] I mean the, the, it was a sensation I'd never, ever had before in my whole life.

So I go to work now I'm in the dressing room and I'm putting on tight clothes, which, when you are feeling this kind of pain is horrible. Like trying to even pull tights up was so excruciating. And now I'm going to class and I'm stretching before class as, as best as I can. And I start doing, uh, you know, liaise and todos.

And then I realized, nope, this isn't happening. Like, I, I, there's no way. So I go to pt, everybody looks at me like this when I walk into the PT room because I'm never in pt. I'm not, I never even have normal aches and pains, which is I feel so lucky about. But, so everybody's like, oh my God, what are you doing in here?

And I was like, well, I, I am, I can't even like lower my head without feeling an enormous amount of pain. So the, the physical therapist who has known me for years, even though I'm not in there, I [00:21:00] think she was like, oh, this must be serious. So she kind of tested me and then she was like, you know, I think you need to see the doctor today, like, and get an MRI.

So I said, great. So I go to get up off of the table. I think I had been laying down and engaging my muscles to stand back up. My whole back seized to the point where it made me lightheaded. Like I almost felt like I was gonna fall down. And I remember calling my mom and saying, mom, you have to come pick me up in a cab.

I have to go to the doctor. I, I don't, you know, something's wrong. Turns out I had a herniated disc in my lumbar spine, which is actually not uncommon even for non-dancers. People ha live with herniations and they don't even know they have them. But turns out I had a herniated disc. And it put me out actually, really not for very long, but I learned the hard way that to not ignore a signal from my body, like if I'm in pain, I should have [00:22:00] stopped and not pushed through.

And because it's so, um, shortsighted when we as dancers decide, oh, we're just gonna, uh, push through something and then it becomes a worse, more chronic injury. Um, so, you know, this is something that still every day, uh, or every week to this day, I'm still going to Pilates. Like the same teacher who helped me to rehab my back.

I've continued with her, even though it's been years and years and years since I've felt any back pain at all. It's like, I forget I even ever had this injury. But now I'm like, okay, the importance of cross training, the importance of, um, you know. Having consistency, uh, for my body. I also am a firm believer in getting body work done.

Um, be that massage or acupuncture or chiropractic or whatever it is that works for any given person. It's like so tough because as ballet dancer, we already are not making the same [00:23:00] amount of money as, let's say, your basketball player who has a whole team to support him. Right? Right. Uh, let's say, but the investment in ourselves is so important.

So I'm investing, I'm spending money, which fortunately I have money to spend as a principal dancer. Ha. I'm making a salary that allows me to invest in myself and in my health to keep me on stage. Um, but you know, it was just, it was such a great lesson. It's like that thing of saying, well, you come out of an injury stronger.

It, it was true both physically, but also, um, in an. Intelligence about my body, awareness about my body. And now I'll never ignore a warning sign from my body again. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: That's, that's such a great lesson. 'cause I think, you know, especially at ballet, there's so much, there's pain, there's pain with point shoes and you know, obviously sore muscles and so many things that, that we do that are painful.

So distinguishing It's normal. Yeah, it's normal. So, so [00:24:00] then you're, you know, trying to sort out, is this a good pain or a bad pain or is this, is this a pain associated with getting, str something, getting stronger or making some kind of progress, or, or is this something that I really need to do something about?

And of course, in dance too, most injuries are overuse injuries. They're not sudden acute. I mean, you know, if you do a, a, if you do a, you know, grande and you land and you immediately twist your ankle, like you, you know, okay, I just had a big injury. But otherwise I feel like, you know, most people, uh, the statistics also bear this out, that the injuries just kind of creep up, right?

So it makes it harder to know, well, when do I, when do I change something about this? 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah. And I will say though, I, I remember as a. Teenager, a young teenager. I was also experiencing some kinds of, like, back soreness. And I went to, um, Dr. Um, Hamilton, who was a big dance doctor at the time, and I said, this is what's going on.

And he said, oh, you know, I, I think it's your growth plates. Like I was growing and it was putting stress on [00:25:00] my body. And I said, okay, well, um, you know, how, how do I proceed from here? Like, do I need to stop dancing or, and he gave me, again, like one of the best pieces of information that I've tried to, I've remembered since, since that day.

Um, and he said to me, just don't do anything that hurts it. And it was like, so ob, so obvious, okay, but it's, it wasn't all of a sudden now like, oh my God, I have to stop dancing entirely. It was like, no, no, you, if you're having a pain. It just hurts to do a bend forward or a jump landing from a jump. Just don't do those things.

So it was like liberating. 'cause I, I thought, okay, great, I can continue and not feel like I'm losing out on time. Um, as long as I'm just not doing the things that continue to aggravate it, it can heal while I get other stuff accomplished. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: It's so interesting that you said that because I, I hurt my knee.

Um, a number of years ago I tore a [00:26:00] bunch of things in my knee mountain biking, which was a very bad, bad choice to, to try to do. And one of my orthopedic colleagues who had looked at my MRI was, you know, he was kind of like helping me on the side. This was a big mistake. I should have gone in for a formal appointment, but instead, you know, he calls me and he says, you know, kind of jokingly, haha, no surgery for you.

Um, and then he said, I said, well, what do I do then? And he said, just don't do anything that hurts. And he didn't really emphasize that I had a bone bruise and I had all these other torn things, but I didn't have a torn ACL. So it was not surgical. And when he said, don't do anything that hurts, it was.

Everything hurts. So, you know, that was like, so it's, it's, it's great that you're sharing that because you know, in some cases probably there will be certain things that you can do. So it's like relative rest. Right. I'm sure, Jen, you've talked to people about this all the time. Yep. You know, doing relative rest versus another type of injury where maybe, you know, this was an acute injury that, you know, everything hurt, but I didn't listen to my body, so I was, you know, I had, I had yet to learn after.

Yeah. As we often [00:27:00] do. So in terms of long dance careers, what do you think are the most crucial ingredients for that? 

Skylar Brandt: Hmm. I think, um, you mean physically just like being able to sustain physically or mentally? Actually, yeah. And mentally, I mean, of course having any kind of strong support system is important.

Um, but, but physically, I think again, it's that thing of listening to your body, investing in your body, but also being, um. Open and very observant. Um, I think, like, it's funny how when I was in my twenties, it was like my colleagues would say to me, oh my God, just wait till you're in your thirties. Like, everything starts to hurt and like you wake up, but with, you feel so stiff and stuff.

And I'm like, but you're in, but you're 30. Like, I just don't, you're so, it's still so young. I mean, it is and it is young, but it is, now that I am into my [00:28:00] thirties, I'm like, oh yeah, I guess it is a little bit, takes a little longer for my body to wake up in the morning or what have you. And I think that, um, I, I have continued to feel good because even though I'm older and older and might have, um, more of my own limitations, what I also have is more knowledge of.

My craft. So my technique has gotten better over time because I've spent longer doing the thing that I am doing professionally. And so even though, um, I could be like, your body's aging, I'm also a lot smarter about how I'm working, um, and, and making these small discoveries that make such a huge difference.

Like not hyperextending my knee, which of course in school your teacher's gonna say, stretch your knees, and as a student you're gonna stretch your knees because you're, it's, it's it's [00:29:00] academic. But then you're like, oh, as a professional, you say, wait a second, I don't need to, I don't need to my, for my knee to go backwards.

Uh, you know, I, it can still be stretched and look the sa you know, look just as well, or if not better. And so it's, it's like interesting 'cause I think in a way you can have a long career the longer you spend in the career. 'cause you just get smarter and wiser and, uh, more attuned to what you need to do.

Also, I think when you're younger, you still have this, um, approach of needing to prove yourself, which is the unfortunate truth that comes along with probably any industry. It's like when you're young and new, you need to make a statement. You need to make an impact. You need to prove to whoever's make, making a choice about your career, why you deserve to be where you wanna go.

And so you push yourself harder. And I think that, um, you know, [00:30:00] again, the older you get and the more trust there is and the more, uh, people know who you are. It's like you don't have you, you, you earn the ability to take things more easily when you really need to, so on and so forth. It's kind of like that trickle down effect.

So, um, in a way I think age can help with a, the longevity of your career. Mm-hmm. 

Jennifer Milner: Well, and I think you, I think you get there by understanding who you are and having that authenticity from as early of an, an age as possible. I mean, when you look at the people who have had longer careers, like Wendy Wheelin and, uh, Sylvie, Guillaume, you know, they both have very authentic personalities on stage.

Trying to think of a way to put it that, that non-dancers would understand as well. So you get a sense of who they are as a person from watching them dance. And they're not trying to fit into a specific type. They understand what they do well, and they are are very strong in that. I think that you're another person like that.

[00:31:00] Um. We definitely know who you are when we watch you dance. And I think that shows, uh, the maturity of being in it for a while, but also the, the understanding of who you are as a human and what you have to bring to it and being smart about how you, you bring that to it. I know Sylvie, she was kind of the, the OG bendy body and, and she lasted until her mid fifties performing and people were like, there was no one bendi before her.

And I'm like, well, there, there was, but they didn't know how to take care of their body so they didn't make it to 54. And she knew how to take care of herself and she knew what to do every day. And you're the same way. You post a lot of your videos of busting your butt to get ready for Gisele, and it's not just in the dance studio, it's doing those box jumps and it's doing all the crazy stuff on the, the trampoline and everything.

Um, and I love that you show that so people understand there's more to doing the OTs and Giselle than, than just practicing the OTs over and over again. 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah. And I think it's so true what you're saying about. Each [00:32:00] person being an individual. Like maybe for me, you know, maybe box jumps work, work for me, but not for somebody else.

And I think that also, again, when you're young, you're like, oh, well if she's doing it, then that's probably the thing to do. And, but it's not necessarily true. It's like there's so many different ways to get around the same, to the same goals. Um, and it people need to have enough faith in themselves and trust in themselves and confidence to make their own decisions and not just follow the crowd, which is, again, easy to do.

'cause as young people, we're very easily influenced, we're, and we have less confidence, you know. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And you alluded to this earlier about, um, the range of joint hypermobility amongst dancers, even amongst the same rank within the same company, right? Some dancers are gonna be much more hypermobile than others.

Have you noticed any, um, anything along the lines of like strengths, vulnerabilities, injury patterns, anything like that? Um, as it might pertain to [00:33:00] hypermobility? 

Skylar Brandt: Yes, I think so. Um, yeah, I think people, you know, I, the people who are seemingly get maybe more injured have, again, that it's like that range, um, their bodies don't stop at a certain point.

So they could just either go over their ankle or, you know, I, it's actually interesting 'cause um, there was a dancer who sh she injured her foot because her, it was on some sort of like slide or it was a partnered, I think it was a partnered thing, but her foot just kind of like. Bent just continued to bend and then it strained ligaments and stuff.

And then I had, during the same season a move where I, like it was a partnered move where I was sliding my feet and then had to go up and over. And instead of, and it went a little too far, but instead of my foot going with the shoe, my foot just, just [00:34:00] came out of my po my point shoe. Like, I was like, oh my God, thank God again.

Thank God my feet are not just the, they're, they stopped somewhere. So they point shoe kept going, but my foot just came out of the shoe. And then I was like walking around with, with my, I needed to take my shoe off and put my foot back in the shoe, but maybe if I had had that other person's feet, my foot would've gone with the action that ended up, you know, causing an injury.

So, um, so I, I do see it, you know. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: And as we have talked about so frequently, um, you know, I love Jen that you're pointing out Sophie Guim 'cause, you know, being one of the absolute Yeah. O og bendy bodies, um, you know, why you're hypermobile in the first place makes all the difference in the world. So, I know some people have said, oh, well, professional dancers couldn't possibly have a connective tissue disorder like Aler Danlos.

I have worked with quite a few former professional ballet dancers that have been diagnosed with Aler [00:35:00] Danlos syndromes, um, which is a form of connective tissue disorder. So, you know, sometimes that same thing that is such an incredible blessing and allows you to do such incredible things, you know, can also predispose you to injury and, and everything's.

You can't tell by looking at somebody. I've seen people say, you know, watching the Olympics for example, and they'll say, oh, that person clearly has EDS. And it's like, you can't tell by looking at somebody. You know, what they, what they have. Um, so we are going to take a quick break and when we come back we are going to talk about what advice you would like to give to younger dancers and what we want dancers to know about using social media, et cetera, and, um, keeping their bodies safe and healthy.

So we are gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.

I am super excited to tell you about the Bendy Bodies boutique. I'm so proud of our fierce styles and flexible designs. These are created by Hypermobile artists. For Hypermobile shoppers, there are so many fun items from clothing, accessories, home goods, and my [00:36:00] favorite are the bags. I especially love the weak Weekender tote with one of the EDS tough designs.

Whether you're shopping for yourself or someone you love, there's so many options to choose from. A portion of the proceeds goes to support EDS nonprofit organizations. For more information, please visit bendy bodies boutique.com. Thank you so much for listening to Bendy Bodies. We really appreciate your support.

It really helps the podcast when you like, subscribe and comment on YouTube and follow rate and review on all audio platforms. This helps us reach so many more people and spread the information to everyone. Thank you so much again, and enjoy the rest of the episode.

Jennifer Milner: All right. And we are back having a conversation with Skyler Brant. Um, Skyler, we have talked, uh, a bit earlier about, uh, social media and about you growing up in the age of social media and how it sort of affected you. Um, we've, so we've covered a fair amount of that, but I would love to know, do you think that there are any trends, [00:37:00] um, like the hyperextension, the extreme flexibility, the, the social media aesthetics or the social media perfection, um, that concern you as a professional?

And, and how would you, uh, speak about that to younger dancers? 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah, I think, you know, I think every dancer, especially once they go from student to professional and they end, you end up finding yourself more as an artist. Um, 'cause again, things, even in school, uh, we obviously take class every day and we practice different styles, techniques, maybe we take character class, jazz class, what have you, but we're not.

As students, we're not on stage as much as a professional dancer. Um, and then maybe when we are on stage or doing a competition or, you know, it's, you're not doing a full length ballet yet, you're executing a variation or, um, you're, I think probably the most artistic someone might feel as a young person is in the Nutcracker.

When you're playing a party kid or you're playing the [00:38:00] Rat King or, or the sugar plum ferry, then you know, all of a sudden you're immersed in a world that allows you to find your, your voice, your individuality, individuality and your expression. Um, so I think, you know, I'm not necessarily worried about young people eventually finding themselves.

What I will say is my perspective from social media, 'cause I'm also learning from it, is there was something actually kind of liberating about seeing people's. Uh, abilities, even if, again, they were students. Like most of these people that I see who are doing crazy things are students. It could be the girl doing 20 pirouettes, the girl who, you know, is lifting her legs around her head.

Like, and what it did for me is it actually took a weirdly, took a weight off of my shoulders because I said to myself, oh my God, I'm never gonna do, I'm never gonna be able to do that. Like, I [00:39:00] thought I was doing well when I did six pirouettes in my living room, but this person's doing twice as many or three times as many, so, and that it's never, it's never, it's not gonna be possible for me, or at least I'm not gonna spend my time in the studio finding out how, figuring out how to do that, even though it's spectacular.

I don't think it's something I'll be able to ever do. So I should really just focus on what. Makes this an art form, you know? And it's not that it's, I don't wanna discount how spectacular it is to go to the theater and in a live show, watch someone pull into six or seven or eight pirouettes. It is amazing, but it's fleeting.

And what I feel is so important to focus on is what is the part of the art form and the craft that stays with you for days. So I think, and that's, and I don't think that that's gonna be the height of the leg or [00:40:00] the height of the jump, or as spectacular as it is. I think it's, at the end of the day, it's how you make people feel with emotionally.

Jennifer Milner: Yeah. I, I hundred percent agree with that. And I. I see so much on, um, Instagram of those spectacular, you know, pyrotechnic instances, which are breathtaking, you know, and I'll have my, I'll have my dancers come in with their Instagram and be like, look what Mariella posted. Look at this amazing pirouette she did.

And I'm like, but look at how she got out of the pirouette. Mm-hmm. Like, that's so much harder. And, and I tell my dancers all the time, the difference for me. Between a pre-professional and a professional dancer is the transitions. That's what really speaks to, um, to you being able to be in a company and start figuring out your artistry.

So I love that you, that you saw that at an early age and said, okay, that's not gonna be me. Rather than going, well, I'm never gonna be a dancer then. And giving up, you said, okay, this frees me up to pursue the other stuff, which I can be really good at, and I [00:41:00] can find that artistry and figure out who I am.

I love that. And you also continue coaching and you know, you've post some videos of your, of yourself, uh, coaching and, and getting, as you said, privates with, um, some pretty famous coaches. And I think that's really important as well for people to see that just because you become, you know, just you make it into a BT studio company.

And then you think, oh, well I've got a career now I can stop training. Right. You make it into a BT, you make it as a solace. You make it as a principal, okay, I'm done. That's, that's not true. As you said, you continue coaching and I don't think like water for chocolate could have been done by you as a 20-year-old, the same way that it's being done now.

You know? Like there's so much that you bring to the table because you continue to learn and grow. So I appreciate you sharing that, um, with our audience about, about seeing that and, and diving deep into it. 

Skylar Brandt: Thank you. Yeah. I, um, I think, you know, we're forever students and I'm [00:42:00] so grateful for my coaches, Irina Deko and Maxine Koski, who were both principals at a BT.

So they were, they did the same rep that I am doing now, which is just amazing to be able to pull from their experiences and their wisdom, their knowledge, um, they are so intuitive and. So helpful and, and honestly, I think because I started with them, all of a sudden there are so many dancers at A BT who are now working with him, with them.

So it makes me happy because, um, they deserve the recognition that they have and they, you know, they're really, and, and they're working with so many different people, yet they're not trying to make us all the same, which I think is also a really beautiful, um, quality about them as, as teachers. It's the most important one, I think, which is to find what works for every person knowing that we're all different, and that if we were all told to do the same thing, there would be no reason to come [00:43:00] back and see Swan Lake eight different times in one week.

If we were all like a, like, you know, from a cookie jar. So, um, yeah, it's been, you know, it's, and I think even as a principal, it's, it's interesting. I remember speaking to Susan Jaffe, who's the director of American Ballet Theater. Um, I asked her, I think I was taking a private lesson with her when I was like 15 or 16 years old.

So this was years ago. And I said to her, oh my gosh, you know, you must have been so nervous, um, like when you got your first oppor, like your first so list or principal roles. 'cause of course I was dreaming, oh my God, it's gonna be like, I really wanna do those things. But that's so, it's so scary to even think about getting your first opportunities.

And she said, you know, actually it was the opposite. She said, when I got my first opportunities, there was no, there were no expectations. No one knew who I was. She said, but then as I built my career and I became a principal dancer, there was a certain level of expectation that people had every time [00:44:00] they came to the theater to see me.

So the pressure actually grew and, and. Got to be more so the more famous she became and the more experienced she had, um, on stage. And so I think for those reasons, I think that's true. There's a lot of pressure that comes with, let's say being a principal dancer. You're all of a sudden you have a huge responsibility to, you know, hold the perform, carry the performance.

Um, and so you have to keep working at it to maintain the level your, your own level and surpass it if you can. 

Jennifer Milner: Absolutely. And, and you've spoken a lot about, um, about sort of this non cookie cutter approach to, to ballet and that it can't be a one size fits all. So, um, sort of summarizing that up a little bit, what do you think the dance world gets right and wrong about the whole, first of all, the beautiful lines and, and how can we.

How can we take what we've been talking about it [00:45:00] and, and use it to pass it down to the next generation? Like what can the ballet world in general do? 

Skylar Brandt: You know? I think there's absolutely nothing. I think it's actually very necessary to, in school, especially those formative years, build that super strong base, that technique, the, okay, this is what the textbook says.

Stretch your knees, point your feet, blah, blah, blah, blah. Get, get your leg as high as possible. I think that's all really important because it's the foundation for what comes after. But what I wish I had perhaps known as a kid is that is you don't have to stress about it that much. You need to know it.

You need to learn it, but later you will break it. You will literally tear it all down. And that's not something that I knew as a kid. I mean, what teacher's gonna say do all the things I'm telling you, but just know that in 20 years you're gonna probably remove. Half of it from your brain. Um, but I [00:46:00] think I would've had an even more enjoyable time in my journey to becoming a professional dancer had I known that it's not as black and white as it's sometimes presented to us.

Jennifer Milner: Excellent. Thank you so much on that. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah. And we had a couple follower questions as well. One follower wanted to know how you take care of your body and mind after performing what your recovery process looks like. 

Skylar Brandt: Um, it depends on how the performance goes, to be really honest. Um, on the occasions where I don't feel good about my performance, it was worse when I was younger, I would feel like I wanted to crawl into a hole and never come out.

Like it would even be hard for me to go to work the next day because I was so embarrassed and ashamed, even though it was probably only, I was the only one who remembered what had happened the night before. But that's how. Important. My job is to me is I have so much, I take so much pride in what I [00:47:00] do, and I respect the art form so much that if it's not what I want it to be, then it's really difficult for me now, I kind of, you know, I, I again have a more mature, um, perspective on it.

And even, I mean, actually recently, um, I had a performance, one performance of theme and variations, um, at Abts fall season. And I wasn't even, it's a very difficult ballet, like one of the hardest ones. It's extremely technical, but beautiful. So beautiful. And I've done a lot of work over time on my head space and my mentality.

And I'm really good at not getting nervous anymore for anything. Um. I find that while nerves are great and important and super helpful, and there's a reason why we get nervous and have adrenaline rushes before we do something big for me, it's, I'm more uncomfortable when I feel that way. So I learned how to just not feel that way before a show.

And so same [00:48:00] thing with femen variations. I wasn't feeling particularly nervous, but I had just re rehears done a run through of it literally four hours prior was my tech rehearsal, which was not ideal. But I was still grateful to have the time on stage before. And I, I made sure to be mindful not to overdo my rehearsal to make me too tired for the show.

'cause again, it's one of these ones that's like, so like you're exhausted at the, I mean, it's, it's like vomit worthy. It's one of those stamina wise. Um, and I remember just like arriving on the stage and feeling. Not fully invested what I was doing, like not fresh. It was also nine 30 at night. It was the last thing on the program.

And I just kind of said to myself, I, I've been here already today. Like I already went through these steps, maybe not a hundred percent physically, but emotionally, mentally, um, because of the rehearsal. And then on top of that, it was coupled with how hard, physically challenging the ballet [00:49:00] is and it just takes from you.

So the fact that I mentally wasn't a hundred percent there and also was so drained in the physical aspect, the curtain came down. I could not make eye contact with like any of the staff members who had come on stage to congratulate us on the, on the job we had done. And I said to my partner, I said, you know, do you wanna take a quick picture just to obviously remember the performance?

We took two pictures, he left the dressing room and I cried for like 30 minutes. Right after the cur, I, I literally, the whole experience just was like shot. I, I just was in hysterically crying. I was like taking my hair out, my makeup off, like full, just distraught. And, um, that stuck with me for some time.

And then later on the evening I got over it. But I kind of was going mentally, going through the things that didn't go well. And that's an instance of, [00:50:00] um, the way I come off of a performance when it doesn't go great, I don't usually cry. I might feel extreme mortification, but in this case, I think the physicality of it made me cry.

It just took a lot out of me otherwise. Um. After performance, I usually spend a lot of time with people afterward. Anyone who comes to say hi, and also friends and family who come to the show. And I like to talk about it. My coaches, who typically are at almost every performance of mine, will leave me a long voice note about what they liked, what they didn't like.

I'm very big on feedback. It, it doesn't matter to me if it's, uh, the next day or the next week. I'm like, I want the feedback right away. I wanna know. Um, so I rely on those people to kind of share with me while it's also still fresh in my head. And then it's really hard for me to fall asleep. I usually, after like a Swan Lake or something, I'm going to bed at one or two in the morning, even though I'm really tired, I [00:51:00] can't shut my brain off.

So, um, that's sort of my post performance routine, like is both analyzing what just happened and also, um, trying to relax and fall asleep, which is hard to do. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: I can't even imagine. I've, I've been to performances where I, you know, I'm not performing. I'm watching, and the performance was so moving though that I went home and I could not fall asleep.

'cause I'm just like, Ugh, this is so exciting. And it was such a great performance. I'm curious to ask you, I think that's fascinating what you just, what you just shared, the feedback from your coaches, does that usually line up with what you felt in your, in your body and like, for example, this time that you're talking about with them and variations, like, did the feedback from your coaches fit with how you thought you did that time?

Skylar Brandt: Absolutely. I always, pretty much, I always agree a hundred percent with them. I always am like, yes, agree, agree. You're right. I couldn't have said it better myself. Like everything, all the feedback that they [00:52:00] have, I totally. Feel it and respect it and, and, and agree with them. Um, sometimes it's hard for me to put my finger on what I didn't like or what I did like, and they, because I can't watch myself and they can sometimes lead me in the direction of, of what needs to be fixed.

Um, that said, they also point out things that they like, you know, of course they're like this or that. A lot of times it's even, it's your costume, it's your hair, it's your makeup. Like, it's the way your, your, uh, your hairline. I mean, literally, it's to that degree, but it makes sense. Again, the ballet is aesthetic, so everything matters.

It's not sometimes just the way you walk on stage, depending on how your costume fits you or the way that your bun, the shape of your bun, how it compliments or detracts from the, your own proportions that that's like 60 or 70% of it, and then you're dancing. Kind of follows after. So, you know, it's so important to [00:53:00] have those people in your life who, because it's, you know, it's easy for of people are so kind and supportive that they'll be like, oh, that was amazing.

You did this, you did that. You so great. You're so pretty. Yeah, I'm, I'm like, thank you. Next, like, moving on, who's gonna tell me, tell me. Really tell despite all that, that's great, but like, I need to know for the next one and then I write it down as well. So making notes. Yeah. 

Jennifer Milner: I think that's so interesting to hear how much, like where your bun is placed.

And I know so many conversations go into where exactly the tiara goes on your head and how much it changes the way you look. And audiences may think, well, that's stupid, but then they may see the dancer on stage and go, oh, there was something, I don't know, I just didn't like it. I just didn't feel it. So.

I think audiences really don't understand how much thought and planning goes into, where's the bun going? What kind of part, what kind of hit just for a bun, right? So what, what do you hope that audiences can [00:54:00] understand, um, about the strength and the sacrifice and all that goes into sort of the beauty that they see on stage?

Skylar Brandt: You know, I think, uh, it's our job to make it look easy and beautiful. Um, and that's why I love ballet and that's why I'm not, again, it's why I'm not playing sports. I mean, ballet is just as athletic as your next sport, but it also has that element of, it's, it's an art. So, um, while I wish that audiences had more appreciation for how, just how difficult it is, I also feel okay about the fact that they are going to see something beautiful and they might not know exactly.

What, what went into it? Um, that's kind of the sacrifice I think that we make as artists, um, in getting to perform for people. Do what we love to do. Uh, you know, I don't feel pity for us, uh, like, oh, [00:55:00] people don't know how hard it is. Yeah. That that is true. They don't. But also we're there to be, we're there to look a certain way, be beautiful, be artistic, transcend people.

And part of that sometimes is, is not knowing how, what they're looking at, you know, there's a mystery in the ballet and there's a a Yeah. The mysticism about it, I think that actually adds to the experience. 

Jennifer Milner: Mm-hmm. I agree. I love, I love to read and reading, like write good writers really move me. I don't wanna know if they struggle every day to write or if the words pour out.

I don't wanna see the crumpled balls of paper. Like the end product is so magical and transported for me. That's all I need. And, and I, I agree that there should be that mystery because we are trying to create lights, staging, music, costumes, the whole thing for it. And at the same time, we wanna make sure people understand how hard dancers work and how [00:56:00] they deserve to get paid, um, as athletes.

And not just because, you know, they look cute in a tutu, but they deserve to get paid as professionals and working athletes and, and sort of all of that thing. So I appreciate your comments on that. Um, if you could change one thing about how dancers are educated with, like, with anatomy and injury and self-care, what would it be?

And I'm really interested to hear, um, sort of from the point of view of dancers who peak too soon, right. And, and what you'd mentioned earlier about the longevity of, of a career and how those two might intersect. 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah. I feel like, um. Another great example of me learning something the hard way. Uh, when I had my back injury, I ended up going to see, uh, Clarice Marshall, who's a Pilates teacher.

Uh, she used to be a dancer for Mark Morris. And, um, she helped to rehab me and now I see her every week, uh, for Pilates, [00:57:00] when I was 12, 13, 14, 15. And I was going to a B T'S summer programs or the A BT school. She would also give us Pilates classes. Like that's how we'd start the day. And I could not, for the life of me understand what was so beneficial about doing heel slide, laying on my back, lifting one knee and putting it down, lifting the other knee and putting it down.

I, I like, I just, if it wasn't physically hard, then how was it benefiting me? And I remember I used to. Sometimes 'cause you know, it's like I was tired anyway from the week going to school, going to dance. Like I had five hours a day, like at ballet school. And so I would take those opportunities to lay on my back to actually like take a little nap if I could like close my eyes.

And Clarice, who is the sweetest, would walk by and say, oh Skylar, this exercises with your eyes open. And you know, I, I [00:58:00] just could not appreciate, um, what that was doing for me until I got injured. And then all of a sudden, however many years later, 20 years later, I was like, Clarice, do you remember when I used to take a nap in your class?

And now here you are saving me, coming back from an injury. And now I don't know what I would do without you. So it's, it's interesting 'cause I think it's hard for young dancers to see the benefits of cross training, just as it was difficult for me. Um. Dancers are also, young dancers are also pushed very hard, hard.

If you see a talented kid, it's all the people around them that wanna do just to push them forward, keep, you know, it's, it's those, it's like that thing of, of a teacher building their own name and reputation off of the raw talents of a student. Um, so I think for parents, it's also really important to be in touch with their children to say, how, check in, how are you doing?

Take a [00:59:00] pulse, make sure that they're happy. Make sure that they're not burnt out. I mean, that's really, that comes down to that support system that we kind of briefly touched on. But it is so important, um, because it's kind of easy to tell someone to do something. But when you're actually the person doing it, and you also are young and you don't know, you haven't found your voice, and we're in a silent art form, it's, it's scary.

It's like a lot of people end up, uh. Finishing before they've even started. 

Jennifer Milner: Mm-hmm. 

Skylar Brandt: You see it so often. 

Jennifer Milner: Yeah. I see that a lot. And I, I do mostly privates and when I'm working with a younger dancer and the, the parents are worried 'cause they're missing this competition or they may not make it back for this thing or that nutcracker, whatever, I have to say, I don't, I don't want your daughter to peak when she's 14.

I want her to peak when she's 45 or 50. Right. And so it's seeing that longevity and the ones who burn super brightly when they're really young, um, are the [01:00:00] ones who often burn out too soon because they're, they're so amazing and cool to look at that people aren't going, let's slow down and just like go slow and easy with it.

And, and you were one of those people that was on the stage at a pretty early age, so, um, so I think you're a great example of how it can still be done. And still be done. Well, 

Skylar Brandt: yeah. 

Jennifer Milner: Yeah. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: I'm so glad you used the word, um, talent, Skylar, because I have seen so many people talk about talent when they're looking at a dancer who's really, really hypermobile.

But maybe that's, you know, kind of that they're equating the two. When we, you know, we know that as you've talked about, the artistry and all these other things that are so important and dance is about movement. And I love what Jen said about the transitions, like things happen in the transitions and Jen and I have quite a few clients in common, um, that they might look a certain way in Instagram photos and Instagram reels.

They can do certain things, but then when it comes to like [01:01:00] day-to-day, they're either in pain or they're having various different problems. I've worked with a dancer who, you know, she was always in the front and center doing the needle in the scorpion and she had all these Gumby awards and she was retired at, you know, age 14 or something like that.

So it is so challenging 'cause dancers now they're seeing all this on social media and they. Need to hear from people like you more and more that it's, it's not about pushing into your hypermobility, it's if you have a more hypermobile body, you need to protect it even more. Um, and we've obviously been touching on this quite a bit, but if you were to like, synthesize into a handful of sentences, what, what do you really think that young dancers need to know about, you know, the social media aspects and the hypermobility?

Um, because they're getting so much of these messages, you know, there's so many places where they just keep showing more and more of these images and it's, it's really difficult for them. 

Skylar Brandt: I think my message would be keep working on it in a safe way. Like if you're not the most flexible person, just as I wasn't, keep working [01:02:00] on your weaknesses as we all do, but also like, continue to strengthen your strengths.

Don't take them for granted. Don't ignore them. Um, discover what's gonna make you different from the next person and what is gonna make you, uh. Interesting. And you know, there's a reason why there are multiple principal dancers at any given ballet company. It's because people wanna see multiple different interpretations of the same ballet.

There'd be a reason that somebody would come back eight different nights to see eight different people portray Oto deal in Swan Lake. And those, uh, differences in each other. While it's good to take from your classmate and observe and, and learn from them, also go inward and see what makes you you.

Dr. Linda Bluestein: That's beautiful. [01:03:00] And if you could tell your younger self something, what would you, what would you say? 

Skylar Brandt: Hmm. Um, I think I would tell myself that, um, it's not always going to be fair. Things are not always gonna be fair. Um, I was very much. Feeling like as a student, you know, if I work hard, I perform consistently with consistency, and I, um, you know, two plus two equals four, I'll be rewarded for it and then blah, blah.

And that is largely how it works in ballet school. I mean, I was, I was lucky. I was always more or less at the top of my class in ballet school. So I wasn't experiencing a lot of, um, difficulty. I wasn't having to overcome a lot as a child because people, my teachers appreciated me and gave me chances and nurtured me and fostered what I had to give.

But then when you get into a company, all of a sudden you're one of 90. And, um, even if you feel [01:04:00] like you're deserving of something, there might be somebody who's in the director's office saying, making a case for themselves as to why they should do something. Not to your exclusion, but it ends up perhaps being to your exclusion.

And so I think for me it was like kind of coming to terms with the fact that I might actually have to speak up for myself and, and push and ask for things and do the thing that is uncomfortable, which is to use our voice to advocate for ourselves. Um, is something that I kind of wish I wasn't as naive about when I was younger, because it took me probably 10 years in a BT to actually find, like, find the courage to assert myself in a certain way.

And then, um, it wasn't until I discovered my own bottom line, um, which was okay, you know what, what the, what this information is telling me is [01:05:00] maybe you're not gonna be a principal dancer here, or maybe you're not gonna be a principal dancer here as soon as you want. So what are you go, you, it's my responsibility now to take that information and, and do something with it.

You know, I can't just complain, oh my God, I'm not getting cast, or I'm only doing things because someone gets injured. It's at a certain point it was up to me to make a decision based on what my circumstances were and to actually take responsibility for myself. And it was that moment that I said, okay, I don't think I'm happy here.

I think I wanna go somewhere else. I wanna be a principal dancer. So if it's not here, I'll do it somewhere else. And that was a moment I was promoted, you know? I'm sure that something that at the time my director could sense. 

Jennifer Milner: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great story. Love that. So, um, you know, we've talked at length about the fact that you are not hypermobile, but we would love to hear from you, having observed it from the outside.[01:06:00] 

Um, would you have any hypermobility hacks for your dancers? And it doesn't even have to be a physical thing. It could be a mental thing as well. 

Skylar Brandt: I think the thing that's worked for me again, is that thing of investing in my body, getting body work done, making the time for it. Um, getting to class at a responsible time that allows me to stretch and prepare my body for what I have to do.

Um, taking class, which I, it's funny, I spoke to a friend the other day and I said, do you think you could go into a rehearsal day without taking class? And he said, yeah, I could. He's like, I mean, would I want to? No. I mean, I've never been a person who could just go into rehearsal without taking class. Like to me it's just sounds crazy, but some people do it.

I think again, being diligent about how you prepare yourself for your day is important. Um. Finding the things on the outside that work for you and listening to your body, stopping when it seems like you should stop, um, [01:07:00] speaking up when something seems dangerous. Like working with a new choreographer, a lot of people have, they get their first opportunities working with a choreographer who sees something in them and pluck them out and says, you're gonna be the star of my new ballet.

It'd be very hard to all of a sudden feel, have enough, um, character to now say, Hey, this lift that you're inventing is really hard on my body. Mm-hmm. But imagine what would happen if you don't, again, speak up for yourself. You might end up with a chronic, even a career ending injury. Mm-hmm. Um, I always say to young people, listen, I know it feels like the end of the world to miss, um, a week or a month or miss your nutcracker run or what or miss a year, but in the context of an entire career, which.

You know, God willing, it's, it's, could be 20, 30 years long, a year is nothing. You know, what I will say is I also learned something interesting recently from another body worker, um, with whom I just kind of [01:08:00] started, uh, seeing. And he said to me, you know, when you go into a stretch, he, he's like, when you start to feel it, it's enough.

You can sit in that place before you keep going. And I was like, oh, true. I guess I don't need to go into my widest split the first thing in the morning and tear the inside of my, uh, inner thigh muscles I could go to at a certain, to a certain degree. Wait there for a minute when I feel like I'm ready, go into the next degree.

But I think we're, again, we're impatient, we're late for class. We're, we have all, a whole number of reasons. We think we should be able to get into a full split first thing, but it might not be. So I think for me that that's been something that I learned again more recently, as your career go goes on, you just pick up more and more things that I can sit in a, in a place in my stretch that is not so extreme, and then move, and then let [01:09:00] it open and then keep going.

Um, that's I think a, a, a hack that I've, I'm enjoying as of this moment. 

Jennifer Milner: Well, it's a great hack and I love it, so thank you for that. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Yeah, and I love it because although you have, uh, you know, commented that you're, that you're not hypermobile, I'm sure there's some people that are gonna say, wait a minute, I've seen her on stage, or I've seen her videos.

And, you know, most professional dancers at your level, including you, you know, have have range of motion that is. So much more than what the quote unquote average person. You know, you look around at other dancers, we often compare ourselves to other dancers. Um, I remember I didn't really think I was that hypermobile growing up because there were other dancers who were more hypermobile than I was, but I was still more hypermobile than the average person.

Skylar Brandt: Yeah. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: So, um, well, Skylar, this has been such a fantastic conversation. I've just really loved chatting with you, learning from you, and, and I know that all the listeners are, are really going to enjoy it. [01:10:00] Um, we wanna know where we can find you and where people can learn more about you and come see your performances as well.

Of course. 

Skylar Brandt: Yay. Yes. Well, I do most of my posting on Instagram. So at Skyler Brand, just my name, it's like usually where I'm most active. Or you can go to my website, which is skyler brandt.com. But. I think that, that, that's it really. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Well, this was so much fun, and I know you're super busy, so we really appreciate you taking the time to, to chat with us.

And, um, do you have any parting thoughts before we go? 

Skylar Brandt: Yeah, no, thank, thank you both. Thank you Lynn. Linda, thank you, Jen. It's been such a pleasure and I love talking about these things because I think they're important. Um, the last mobility hack I have for people, or parting words is don't forget to take time off.

Ah, thank you. That's such an important one. It's obvious, but it's obvious to me. Maybe not to everyone, but I forgot about it because I'm like, oh yeah, of course I'm gonna take at least a day off. [01:11:00] Take, take, take days off, um, to heal and recover mentally, physically, emotionally. I think it, it makes you grow in those periods that you're not in the studio, you're growing to.

Absolutely. 

Jennifer Milner: That's a great, that's a great one. Thank you for saying it out loud for everybody. It's always great to talk to you. That's a perfect one to end on, so thank you again. 

Dr. Linda Bluestein: Thank you.

Well, that was such a fantastic conversation with a BT Principal, dancer, Skyler brand, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Bendy Bodies Podcast. With the Hypermobility md, I have lots of other resources including my newsletter, the Bendy Bulletin.

Check them out on substack@hypermobilitymd.substack.com. You can help us spread the word about joint hypermobility and connective tissue disorders by leaving a review and sharing the podcast. This really helps raise awareness about these complex conditions. Did you know that I also offer one-on-one support for both clients and healthcare professionals?

Whether you're living with [01:12:00] a connective tissue disorder or caring for someone who is, I've got your back. Check out my coaching and mentorship options on the services page of my website@hypermobilitymd.com. You can find me, Dr. Linda Bluestein on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, or LinkedIn at Hypermobility md.

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